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(Courtesy of fravia's searchlore.org)



Searching and understanding an image without knowing its name and purpose
"The chick on the river",
an autumnal small assignment


by G. Bidwell and fravia+


Part of the finding images section and of the antiadvertisement section.

published @ searchlores in November 2004, Version 3, december 2004

Other, related assignements: The quiet harbour    The head of the crab    What do we sell?

Introduction     The image     The results until now     The final solution (by Jeff)    


Introduction

A new small challenge
(Images finding on the web as art and passion ~ Images debunking)

Can you find the image below? What is it, what does it mean?
As Bidwell pointed out to me, there are enough data IN THE IMAGE ITSELF to allow seekers to solve the assignment, i. e. finding what this is about, even without finding the image itself, which is probably true, comet to think of it, though such statements are always easy... once you have gained knowledge ex post.

I beg those (hopefully very few) among our readers that should happen to already, fortuitously, KNOW where this image comes from and what exactly it represents: please *refrain* from hinting or publishing the solution on our messageboard and try to solve instead, for instance, our previous "sommertime" images searching challenge... (until now still unsolved).

The declared purpose of this image 'assignment' (part of a recent "image searching" workshop of mine) is to test viewers' ability to "debunk" images, which is in itself a useful skill in our "images bombarded" society.

So what's in this image? Why should they have done it? Is it erotic? (ok, a little, it is). What does it represent, which 'levers' is it supposed to move in the subconscious of the viewer? Answering these questions will make it easy to understand where the image may come from. And what it should mean, and what probably it has been used for...

The image is ORIGINAL and has NOT been edited nor modified, nor alterated in any way... just cropped by me, and not too much: just a little (~ 2 cm) *left*, a little (~ 3 cm) *below*, something more cropping (~ 10 cm) *above* (where you just would see some sky above those trees, nothing of relevance), and no cropping at all on the right side.



The image

source2, find this if you can :-)




The results until now

In only a couple of days our small seekers' community already dug out quite a lot of interesting angles. And they seem to be mostly on the right track :-)
I believe that this image will be thoroughly debunked before the end. Which was the purpose of the whole exercise, after all (you remember that old advertisement debunking essay by Martine Joly ?)
And yes, before you ask, I checked: the image is on the web (uncropped and with another resolution)... only, I fear and hope at the same time, not so easy to find, after all... well' see...


The messageboard's discussion

http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (21/11/04 10:43:06)
    is it from a movie ?
    & those shoes ??
Riddlesolver

lots of dumb questions (21/11/04 17:01:40)
    OMG, I had other plans for today, but now my brain will
    be occupied for at least several hours of desperate
    thinking...

    Set:
    Where? (Lake? River?)
    How far does that rock go?

    Girl:
    Who is she? (pic definitely looks 'staged', so who is she in
    the picture/in the real world?)
    How did she get there? From the left? From the viewer?
    What is she doing? (drinking doggy-style? looking for
    a lost object? Kissing the water?)
    What is she wearing around her wrist?
    Why is she wearing that dress?
    Is her head wet? (water dripping from her neck and hair? I think
    her dress and her legs don't look wet.)
    Why the tension?

    Image:
    That horizontal line in the middle of the image (left) -
    is it a scan? What are those white things in the right quarter
    of the image?
    Purpose of the pic? (selling dresses/shoes/hot chili sauce/bottled water?)

    A lot of questions, but somehow I feel that not a single
    one of them will lead me in the right direction :-)

flux

You forgot to mention her shoes. They do not seem appropriate for that situation (n/t) (21/11/04 18:53:58)

Xucrute

Riddlesolver already did - I think she must have been dropped there by a helicopter (n/t) (21/11/04 20:42:55)

flux

Talking about shoes... (22/11/04 17:44:36)
    Where is the right shoe? It seems to be broken... Are they advertising shoes?
Nemo

Re: Talking about shoes... (22/11/04 17:56:58)
    i see the right shoe right there
    but you notice the perls on both shoes ?? perls on the shoes and perls on the bracelet and maybe a necklace and maybe earring of perls ??
    this also points to an ad for sprinkling bottled water as many others already said
    not seldom you have mineral water bubbles as "perls" on ads

    so if it is advertisement for bottled water the title source could point french
    perrier ??



Riddlesolver

she doesn't look French (22/11/04 18:23:12)
    I'd swear she's American.
clueless

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (21/11/04 21:54:37)
    I'll bet this is a bottled water ad from a magazine.
Some Guy

her legs (needlessly) form a letter... (21/11/04 22:40:33)
    ...well, I know a certain brand of bottled water that would fit nicely :-)

    arguments for the "bottled water" hypothesis:
    - the image makes me thirsty in an 'aroused', almost animal way
    - source? like in "eau de source"? well, quickly zapping through the first
    ten pages of google images told me who would probably like to sell me
    some water
    - well, the letter :-)

    If this interpretation is correct, I would classify the strange, almost
    impossible situation as the disturbing element of the ad.

flux

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (21/11/04 23:33:09)
    An ad, definitely.

    I think this is a middle page of a magazine, and the line we see is from where the page is folded. Now, hmm, I can think of a magazine that has a center page intended to be viewed rotated, but the image doesn't exactly fit :)

Mordred

Re: Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (22/11/04 00:53:49)
    yup, i would also think of an ad, probably for bottled water.

    sexy girl, in an impossible situation raising the interest (good point flux), wearing 'upper class' clothes (maybe an luxuous (read expensive) product, for the specific 'young, dynamic, and incomes above average' market part).

    High standing but/and primitive :)

    it screams SHE IS THIRSTY. But she does not drink any water. Even if she incarnates the urban world (how can you walk in a forest with those clothes and shoes..), she drinks directly from lady Nature herself.

    It somehow reminds me of a famous ad for a famous water brand, Perrier :

    The Ogilvye agency launched four commercials in France with the slogan "Water, air, life" Director Jean-Paul Goude underlined thirst as a key factor in an ad which put a very thirsty woman and a very thirsty lion face to face on top of a hill. It won the Grand Prix at the 38th Commercial Film Festival in Cannes.
    (http://www.museedelapub.org/pubgb/virt/mp/perrier/ and http://www.perrier.com/FR/ImgP_ObjetBasic/diapo_01-001_new.jpg)

    firsts thoughts. but who knows. It could be a perfume advertisement..
dryad

ads archives (22/11/04 01:50:37)
    start point : http://www.google.com/search?q=%22adflip.com%22+Ad-Access

    an adflip account could come handy
dryad

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (22/11/04 00:31:15)
    A little Rorschach, or what I see in the image:

    The background is blurred and represents a gentle mountain stream, an empty natural paradise, liquid and green. It suggests purity, vitality, the regenerative force of nature. It also suggests protective isolation.

    The center of the image contains a young woman on a wet rock, in an unnatural position, as if attempting to drink directly from the stream. Her dress, hairstyle and high heel shoes are better suited for an office downtown than for this wilderness setting. There is a necklace (?) on her neck, and her left leg is raised. Her position emphasizes the roundness of her buttocks and breasts. Her lips are half open and almost touching the water.

    The above elements, especially the discrepancy between the woman's attire and her surroundings, lead me to believe that this is a metaphor and probably an advertisement for something.

    If this were an advertisement then what could be advertised here? Some of my free associations of ideas produced by the woman's image are:

    - a cougar or mountain lion drinking from the river / maybe trying to catch a salmon (Discovery-like)
    - Narcissus falling in love with his reflection in the water.
    - a feeling of urgency.

    A human being would use a cupped hand to drink, whereas the character in the image drinks (fishes?) like a lioness.

    At first I thought this is an ad about water, now I'm not so convinced. The image conveys a state of mind about well-being, about the satisfaction of primary instincts by "going back to the source".

    It could be related to a drug: either vitamins or an antianxiety drug, or something along those lines.

    The image would also work fine for a brand of perfume (something wild).

    Perhaps, too, for a Discovery-like tv channel.


    Concepts conveyed to me by the image:

    source, wild, quench,
    alone, safe,
    instinct, female, sex,


vvf

Impressions (22/11/04 00:56:02)
    It seems to me as if she is a powerfull woman: blond, athletic, big breasts, high shoes, appealing outfit. She looks as a predator to me.
    In addition she is looking free. Almost in an animal position; drinking fresh water right from the river, without the help of her hands. She seems not to be worried to stand in such a vulnerable position.

    As it does not seem to be a real situation (it looks somehow surrealistic to me) I guess most elements are deliberately choosen. For instance, she would seem much more powerfull if she was wearing a red dress, so I guess the colour has another meaning; perhaps she was supposed to look like a animal; not a deer; perhaps a wolf?

    Finally, she is not wearing underwear!
Xucrute

Re: Impressions (22/11/04 01:47:25)
    Definately an advert pic. The blur is just artistic use of depth of field + compression.

    "Restrained" or "prim" seems to be the recurring hints from the clothing:

    High heels
    Corset
    Hair in a bun

    This is either to add tension to the scene or hint that the woman is of a certain bearing.

    Seems to specific to be a stock image.

    If it IS a Volvic ad as suggested, its not the current UK campaign. Looks like a european ad.

    No image information embedded. Probably cropped to remove text.
madhaha

Re: Re: Impressions (22/11/04 12:17:54)
    Volvic = ad of volvo?
    Cause the two things I immediately imagined this would avertise were a lux. car or perfume.

    It's probably the message of the ridiculously high heels - how did she got there (if not by her expensive bmw/volvo/umm another_expensive_car ... whatever)

Mordred

No: Volvic as Volvic Mineral water (22/11/04 14:14:41)
    http://images.google.com/images?q=volvic&hl=en&lr=&safe=off
    but volvic is not classy enough for that advertisement
    also imho the shoes are too far off the golden perspective center of the image to possibly be the real ad-point

Zeppo Mexicano

Impressions (22/11/04 14:26:46)
    As one reads the picture [this weird photograph is obviously taken from an ad] like a text, from left to right, see from where you start, where you eyes are stopped, and where you land: between the half open lips (!) of the women and right into the water. I feel and see so many (dressed) raw pulsions in this scene that it starts to make me incomfortable.

    Is it how a simple commodity, water as mordred think, is to be sold?
o.f.





The final solution (by Jeff)

You should first try to find it by yourself. But if you just want to ruin your quest, scroll down until you see the blue text...


Re: Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (22/11/04 00:53:49)
    yup, i would also think of an ad, probably for bottled water.

    sexy girl, in an impossible situation raising the interest (good point flux), wearing 'upper class' clothes (maybe an luxuous (read expensive) product, for the specific 'young, dynamic, and incomes above average' market part).

    High standing but/and primitive :)

    it screams SHE IS THIRSTY. But she does not drink any water. Even if she incarnates the urban world (how can you walk in a forest with those clothes and shoes..), she drinks directly from lady Nature herself.

    It somehow reminds me of a famous ad for a famous water brand, Perrier :

    The Ogilvye agency launched four commercials in France with the slogan "Water, air, life" Director Jean-Paul Goude underlined thirst as a key factor in an ad which put a very thirsty woman and a very thirsty lion face to face on top of a hill. It won the Grand Prix at the 38th Commercial Film Festival in Cannes.
    (http://www.museedelapub.org/pubgb/virt/mp/perrier/ and http://www.perrier.com/FR/ImgP_ObjetBasic/diapo_01-001_new.jpg)

    firsts thoughts. but who knows. It could be a perfume advertisement..
dryad

ads archives (22/11/04 01:50:37)
    start point : http://www.google.com/search?q=%22adflip.com%22+Ad-Access

    an adflip account could come handy
dryad

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (22/11/04 00:31:15)
    A little Rorschach, or what I see in the image:

    The background is blurred and represents a gentle mountain stream, an empty natural paradise, liquid and green. It suggests purity, vitality, the regenerative force of nature. It also suggests protective isolation.

    The center of the image contains a young woman on a wet rock, in an unnatural position, as if attempting to drink directly from the stream. Her dress, hairstyle and high heel shoes are better suited for an office downtown than for this wilderness setting. There is a necklace (?) on her neck, and her left leg is raised. Her position emphasizes the roundness of her buttocks and breasts. Her lips are half open and almost touching the water.

    The above elements, especially the discrepancy between the woman's attire and her surroundings, lead me to believe that this is a metaphor and probably an advertisement for something.

    If this were an advertisement then what could be advertised here? Some of my free associations of ideas produced by the woman's image are:

    - a cougar or mountain lion drinking from the river / maybe trying to catch a salmon (Discovery-like)
    - Narcissus falling in love with his reflection in the water.
    - a feeling of urgency.

    A human being would use a cupped hand to drink, whereas the character in the image drinks (fishes?) like a lioness.

    At first I thought this is an ad about water, now I'm not so convinced. The image conveys a state of mind about well-being, about the satisfaction of primary instincts by "going back to the source".

    It could be related to a drug: either vitamins or an antianxiety drug, or something along those lines.

    The image would also work fine for a brand of perfume (something wild).

    Perhaps, too, for a Discovery-like tv channel.


    Concepts conveyed to me by the image:

    source, wild, quench,
    alone, safe,
    instinct, female, sex,


vvf

Re: Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm - question to frav+ (22/11/04 20:06:36)
    shit i had to put my paint brush down and come back in - i hate riddles

    fravia if i may ask - cropped off of side and bottom- or only on one side?

    back to painting
jeff

Re: Re: Re: dammit - i mean off side or just bottom - or both? :-0 (n/t) (22/11/04 20:08:11)

jeff

Answered: just refresh now source2.htm (22/11/04 20:24:07)
    Where you'll read the following:

    "The image is ORIGINAL and has NOT been edited nor modified, nor alterated in any way... just cropped by me, and not too much: just a little (~ 2 cm) *left*, a little (~ 3 cm) *below*, something more cropping (~ 10 cm) *above* (where anyway you would just see "some sky" above those trees, and more of those trees, nothing of relevance), and no cropping at all on the right side."

    And yes, the image still IS on the web (I checked right now)

    ---------

    Man, you'r all quite good, congrats!
    How come nobody solved the previous riddle at
    http://www.searchlores.org/holy2004.htm
    not enough sexy to waste your time on it? :-)
fravia+

Re: Answered: just refresh now source2.htm (22/11/04 20:54:07)
    well as a matter of explanation only:

    IF - if in BOLD -
    IF perchance you had told me "I only cropped the authors name off the bottom"...

    i might then assume that the left to right sizing had Not been cropped or touched...
    google allows for semi-pixel SIZE-ing

    so I could have asked for +803 X"
    and let google find for me all pics the size of yours, using ONE KNOWN, algerbraic(803) regardless of how many pixels u chopped off the bottom or top... (just for future riddles:)

    so- in returns one could find 803 in filename- and in pixels sizing - and IF you look at returns and see 803 niether in filename nor in pixel size then it means that there is a reference at that url website for "+803 X" somewhere on its pages

    ......

    levers unleashed
    lavender - cool - soothing- cool water- refreshing- natures- nature- natural - source - headwaters- mountains - humm etc...

    but alas lad you were too good again to let me use image forinsics upon you :)
    so humm- how do i convert cm to increase pixels size :) ????

jeff

Keep on painting (23/11/04 14:57:25)
    but with soft tone and light brush strokes, if i may ask.
    You are so finely pointillist.
    Ah, 803!
    That's a whole lotta rosie,
    freeking good, 'icano.

    ;-)


o.f.

Re: Answered: just refresh now source2.htm (22/11/04 21:15:55)
    ...awha well - that answers some questions as well :(

    And yes, before you ask, I checked: the image is on the web...

    that would indeed indicate that your source did not originate OFF the web since you had to check to see if it were there :(

    this could mean it is there on the web at any pixel sizing and not necessarily the size you used from whatever source :(

    back to painting - i hate painting
jeff

The dimensions suggest a Billboard to me (23/11/04 13:25:50)
    Or, an HDTV image
trailing edge

Impressions (22/11/04 00:56:02)
    It seems to me as if she is a powerfull woman: blond, athletic, big breasts, high shoes, appealing outfit. She looks as a predator to me.
    In addition she is looking free. Almost in an animal position; drinking fresh water right from the river, without the help of her hands. She seems not to be worried to stand in such a vulnerable position.

    As it does not seem to be a real situation (it looks somehow surrealistic to me) I guess most elements are deliberately choosen. For instance, she would seem much more powerfull if she was wearing a red dress, so I guess the colour has another meaning; perhaps she was supposed to look like a animal; not a deer; perhaps a wolf?

    Finally, she is not wearing underwear!
Xucrute

Re: Impressions (22/11/04 01:47:25)
    Definately an advert pic. The blur is just artistic use of depth of field + compression.

    "Restrained" or "prim" seems to be the recurring hints from the clothing:

    High heels
    Corset
    Hair in a bun

    This is either to add tension to the scene or hint that the woman is of a certain bearing.

    Seems to specific to be a stock image.

    If it IS a Volvic ad as suggested, its not the current UK campaign. Looks like a european ad.

    No image information embedded. Probably cropped to remove text.
madhaha

Re: Re: Impressions (22/11/04 12:17:54)
    Volvic = ad of volvo?
    Cause the two things I immediately imagined this would avertise were a lux. car or perfume.

    It's probably the message of the ridiculously high heels - how did she got there (if not by her expensive bmw/volvo/umm another_expensive_car ... whatever)

Mordred

No: Volvic as Volvic Mineral water (22/11/04 14:14:41)
    http://images.google.com/images?q=volvic&hl=en&lr=&safe=off
    but volvic is not classy enough for that advertisement
    also imho the shoes are too far off the golden perspective center of the image to possibly be the real ad-point

Zeppo Mexicano

Impressions (22/11/04 14:26:46)
    As one reads the picture [this weird photograph is obviously taken from an ad] like a text, from left to right, see from where you start, where you eyes are stopped, and where you land: between the half open lips (!) of the women and right into the water. I feel and see so many (dressed) raw pulsions in this scene that it starts to make me incomfortable.

    Is it how a simple commodity, water as mordred think, is to be sold?
o.f.

That chick looks expensive (22/11/04 19:13:32)

    Knowing Fravia's almost religious crusade against anything commercial is reason enough to think that the image comes from an ad :)

    Seriously now, the dress and shoes versus the setting indicate pretty much that.

    In real life these things never happen. You'll never EVER see that image fortuitously when you go fishing with your buddy Joe, I can guarantee that. Source2 is a kind of image that belongs to the world of art, i.e. it is art-ificial and there's not a shadow of a doubt about it. What other circumstances allow images like that? Quite simply: dreams, poems, movies, paintings - you get the idea. Anything created by mind, less the real world.

    I do no think this is a still from a movie though, because everything in the image hints at advertising, everything is so damn perfectly staged! If you want proof just think of the blurred background and that alone should be enough to prove my point. It is way too blurred to come from a movie. It is out of focus on purpose, so that your eye stays with the character, who is very sharply portrayed in the foreground. Incidentally, the woman's round parts, all 4 of them, are in the plain middle of the image, not that it means much in itself these days when every commercial and its dog features sex, sex, sex (either that or I have a dirty mind - shit I love sex!).

    Advertising uses tropes like that to stir emotions in the viewer, in order to use the very simple and pavlovian mechanism that every human mind in this world possesses: associate one stimulus with another in synch, namely associate a pleasant emotion with a product, so that the subject, after ad exposure, will associate the advertised product with something pleasurable and hopefully buy it.

    It is tricky, therefore, to guess the product in a case like this because professional advertisers are rarely redundant in their work. Advertising is not about describing a specific product, it is about conveying pleasant emotions that the viewer will associate with a brand. Take the brand out of the picture and you may find it difficult to reconstruct the mechanism of the original advertisement. What remains in the 'unbranded' image is the handful of meanings that the advertisers put in there. And these folks are never talking to the cortex, they're talking to those more primitive parts of one's brain that constitute the craddle of emotions.

    Advertising is a legal form of mind control. It is pure and simple seduction. It is mindfuck, never underestimate it or you will make a big, big mistake.

    I am not going to repeat the concepts or "emotions" conveyed to me by this ad, I would just like to say that it is imho impossible to pinpoint the specific brand just by looking at the image.

    Why so? Ads are never the same, they transmit whatever ideas/feelings the client and the advertiser have agreed upon, and these ideas may not be the same year in, year out. After all, a product's marketing evolves according to the market, duh.

    Advertisers start from the brand and their client's wishes: how does the client wish the public to perceive a specific product? Then they figure out what 'needs' the ad should address: security, good health, sex (again:) etc. Then they make the ad, associating those feelings with the brand. The viewer swallows the ad and - bingo! - goes out there and buys the product. Because he/she would have linked some basic human need with the advertised brand.

    I'll stop here rather abruptly, not without telling you a little joke: Do you know what Pavlov did after his famous dog died?









    He kept bring it food for another two weeks :))



vvf

Re: That chick looks expensive (22/11/04 19:45:45)
    ...have some opinions at first glance butt no time to play

    quick references that may play parts; may Not
    source2 source7 - why? what posseses filename if at all? why the jump; jne?
    source- headwaters?

    lavender - cool?

    note in google fravias source for his news page:
    http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:XIYqZG_iiXIJ:www.searchlores.org/news.htm+%22by+g.+bidwell%22+river&hl=en
    http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:XIYqZG_iiXIJ:www.searchlores.org/news.htm+fravia+bidwell&hl=en

    you might see and wonder, as i did, whois g. bidwell, does he have a significance?
    why is his name in cashe underlined AND in BOLD while fravias is not...

    sorry can't play more; painting kitchen and dinning
jeff

Re: Re: as usual- addemDUM (22/11/04 19:51:56)
    you might see and wonder, as i did, whois g. bidwell, does he have a significance?
    why is his name in cashe underlined AND in BOLD while fravias is not...


    clarification:
    his name in source==...
jeff

Re: Re: Re: as usual- addemDUM (22/11/04 21:29:09)
    Done that already.

    Well, I'm thinking the woman just drove many many miles without stopping and her new and economical car still didn't run out of fuel, so she HAD to stop somewhere to get some drinking water herself. Hmm now, what car would that be?


vvf

Re: Re: Re: Re: as usual- addemDUM (22/11/04 21:42:50)
    a car huh? she is rather dressed as luxury rather than red-dress-hot- as mentioned earlier above... hair all coiled - body ready to sprung while drinking from the spring - heh
    more of a coool rather than cold - brr-glacial-ice-
    more of a fresh refreshing - rather than hot and steamy thirst

    in her heels she is a tall drink of water

    a car?? hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... well she is a hummer for sure :)
jeff

Re: Re: Re: Re: ain't gona get this damned painting done (22/11/04 22:27:23)
    ...im painting along and visualizing this broad bent over on her knees with open mouth and i can't tear it from my concentration as i stick the brush in and out of the can, and

    but hell frav has indicated that people are pretty close - so my latest thought won't be right - with all the time in the world and dressed up with no place to go
    she steps out of her Hummer h3t and she sips from the water like a cougar while her luxurious water proff watch takes a dip........

    or
jeff

Dating the picture (22/11/04 23:32:59)
    Its definately recentish. Probably this year. Corsets come and go but this particular look is very 2004. No earlier than 2001.

    Well spotted on the J bidwell clue.
madhaha

Re: Dating the picture (23/11/04 19:07:54)
    ok- i'll date the picture - what's her phone number?? :)

    well i'm stuffed in behind the refridgerator cause i don't want to move it
    that far out and not be able to open the door and get a beer, when i step on
    the ice maker line and all hell breaks loose...but its seven oclock in the
    morning you say - lets just say i try to plan ahead :)
    now im up to my ankles in water thinkin this is not cool just because i
    wanted to later be refreshed!

    cool------------hummmmmmm

    why did i think cool?

    what did i write in other posts? and WHY?
    what promted me?

    lavender - cool?

    levers unleashed
    lavender - cool - soothing- cool water- refreshing- natures- nature- natural
    - source - headwaters- mountains - humm etc...

    she is rather dressed as luxury rather than red-dress-hot- as mentioned
    earlier


    as im stepping onto the ice maker line i am asking myself - is lavendar
    really cool? - crack - splash - wrestling water line like a boa
    constrictor - is that really the lever that was suppossed to go off?

    hurrying to get the water turned off and mop up the mess i realize that i
    may be going about this the wrong way! backasswards.

    Let's assume for a minute, or an hour, that this is an AD (it may very well
    not be- but let's play assumpchuns-tions)
    It's stated somewhere in this thread that fravia oppossing advertizers so
    vehemicaly, surely would not use an image from an ad that would probably
    then promote inadvertently a product

    frav calls them enemies sometimes - at minimum - doesn't like certain types
    of mind games - i don't look at adverizers as enemies - without them I'd
    never get the opportunity to pop into the kitchen for a fresh brew cause i
    don't pay attention to their ads (well i might linger over a HUMMER ad a
    second or two)
    Using an image from an Ad- I would have thought such an idea also- frav
    wouldn't do that would he?? It's a mistake to be predictable and a bigger
    mistake to assume a person is predictable

    but thinking about it while on hands and knees with 90 soaking towels im
    thinking what would that sun-sue guy proverbalize?
    Know your enemy (or was that some other johhny Cash guy quote? :)

    ok whats my rambleing point?

    Enterpetation of what levers are moved in my brain are predicted.
    HUH?
    well think about it - we all have different or fairly close interpetations
    of what this image says to us...why?

    first it's suppossed to say something to us

    Im asking the wrong questions of myself...am i?
    ask not what i think- ask rather, what they want me to think

    so is there a science? a psyhcology?(sp?)
    IF - IF in BOLD- if this Is an advertizment then was it a shoddy happhazzrd
    unthinking created piece- or was there predetermined planning...

    if its an ad what are its effects (affects?) on the viewer?

    so i don't know
    i hang all the towels out on the deck rails that still covered with ice and
    go ask google:
    advertising
    color meaning


    sonofabeach! there is such a predetermined mindwashing techniques going on-
    well of course there is - psychological meanings

    one such example:
    http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-meaning.html

    Purple

    Purple combines the stability of blue and the energy of red. Purple is
    associated with royalty. It symbolizes power, nobility, luxury, and
    ambition. It conveys wealth and extravagance. Purple is associated with
    wisdom, dignity, independence, creativity, mystery, and magic.

    According to surveys, almost 75 percent of pre-adolescent children prefer
    purple to all other colors. Purple is a very rare color in nature; some
    people consider it to be artificial.

    Light purple is a good choice for a feminine design. You can use bright
    purple when promoting children's products.
    Light purple evokes romantic and nostalgic feelings.
    Dark purple evokes gloom and sad feelings. It can cause frustration.


    sonofagun- they got a HIT out of me with== luxury - a lever i mentioned in
    one of my posts - so it worked on me... it got Mordread with power (i think
    it was Mordred) - i can't recall others words- see how u fit

    so are we intuitive; or in danger of being too susceptable?? :(

    Green

    Green is the color of nature. It symbolizes growth, harmony, freshness, and
    fertility. Green has strong emotional correspondence with safety. Dark green
    is also commonly associated with money.

    Green has great healing power. It is the most restful color for the human
    eye; it can improve vision. Green suggests stability and endurance.
    Sometimes green denotes lack of experience; for example, a 'greenhorn' is a
    novice. In heraldry, green indicates growth and hope. Green, as opposed to
    red, means safety; it is the color of free passage in road traffic.

    Use green to indicate safety when advertising drugs and medical products.
    Green is directly related to nature, so you can use it to promote 'green'
    products. Dull, darker green is commonly associated with money, the
    financial world, banking, and Wall Street.

    Dark green is associated with ambition, greed, and jealousy.
    Yellow-green can indicate sickness, cowardice, discord, and jealousy.
    Aqua is associated with emotional healing and protection.
    Olive green is the traditional color of peace.


    -sonofabeotch - they got me again - i posted nature and refreshing -

    so ok sorry - i know this doesn't get yah any closer to finding the exact
    image somewheres - but if we know what it IS they r trying to subliminaly
    edge our brains into feeling and seeing, we get closer to what the 'message'
    may be from their point of view to crack our nut, rather than our own
    guessing. Our guessing seems to have been good according to frav+

    If they have and are marketing written manuals for mind copulating ad writers then one only has to find and read the manual

    Combine interpetations with what we think they project and solve the mystery

    ...much like "thank u for registering" nop nop jne...crack their damned nut
    instead, by knowing them as well as they know you/us/we the people/.

    which after a longass story (i still wonder what a longass is - is that like dropy tits?) is exactly why frav would in my opinion use an image that was used as an advertizment...a teaching tool

    (bear in mind that was just one url with color meanings- other sites may
    have different points of color pshycologies to explore with different
    meanings - it would be good to find repeatable or standard of meanings)

    so again i think the image for me portrays nature - luxury - freshness -

    am not sure how that would pertain to a car --- a 4 wheel drive perhaps -

    im sticking pretty much to some form of bottled water but not sure how
    luxury would fit in......

    ok am off to shampoo the wet carpets with my new and improved --heheh


jeff

Hola Jeff! Yo lo busqué :) (23/11/04 20:32:03)
    "im sticking pretty much to
    some form of bottled
    water but not sure how
    luxury would fit in......"

    hombre espectacular!
    tienes razon hermano!
    no estoy diciendo que hayas triunfado por ti solo, y yo tampoco, pero no lo negarás, tu inteligencia y la nuestra... jugando, investigando, creando...
    muy bien!

    Yo lo busqué, yo lo encontré!

    Buscarlo no es tan facil, no, no es nada facil.
    Tambien no sé si seguir o suspender.
    fravia no agradecerá esto ... pues ... la misma palabra "source" y la palabra "agence" te ayudaran a relajarte aun más :)

Saludos amigos

Uh? Does this mean you found the image? (n/t) (24/11/04 15:03:05)

../

Re: Uh? Does this mean you found the image? (24/11/04 18:08:00)
    well- as oncle faf might say - yeppers i found it :)
    frav+ check your mail
jeff

The challenge has been solved... (24/11/04 18:31:45)
    ...rather too quickly and anyway quite cleverly and efficiently by all of you together

    I must point out that all of you have been much too quick for my 'challenging' tastes: when I presented this image during a workshop of mine, one month ago, the participants were MUCH slower than you have been in solving it, and needed many more hints. One more proof that the web gives mighty sinergies, as I always said.

    So the "virtual community" of seekers beats easily a "real community" of seekers, it seems.

    I must also point out that those that somehow "felt" the "mineral water" tag from the beginning have been the real debunking "ice-breakers". Was it really so automatical/obvious?

    I must finally point out that two people: our spanish mysterious friend and (as usual) the great ~S~ Jeff, opened the final cork of the sparkling Marie-Henriette bottle :-)

    BTW: my friend G.Bidwell prepared FOUR advertisements for the workshop. Should I publish the other three, and make the whole lot into a "virtual workshop on advertisement debunking", or are you already bored enough?
    Your suggestions please.

    Also: was the name of the page, "source", a too obvious hint?
    My mistake in that case.


fravia+

Re: The challenge has been solved... (24/11/04 18:57:43)
    a full explanation of how i found it will be forthcoming- probably tommorrow - as today i will be shopping and cooking all day - we are havng thanksgiving dinner here today/tonight/ rather than tommorow so my daughter can go visit her mother and grandmother tommorow for their dinner-

    you will probably be surprized at how (method) used to (WHOA SHIT! there it is - find it)

    shocked the hell out of me :) angles angles angles- til then chow!! :)
jeff

Kudos! (24/11/04 19:35:21)
    I'm kicking myself

    satisfaction of primary instincts by "going back to the source".

    Scary. The image itself gave me the slogan... in English!!
vvf

few things are not clear to me (24/11/04 19:05:18)
    ok spring water, yes. makes sense to me.

    but how do i get from the notion of "advertisement for bottled spring water"
    to find the actual image?
    that is the bit that should maybe obvious to any experienced searcher.
    but obviously not to me. :) it is in fact quite often that i can perfectly
    follow the first lead-up to one of these searching-games, but in the end
    someone makes a jump, the riddle is solved, and i still don't know the
    answer nor how to get there :)

    what was it that mhyst and jeff said then, spring water ad was mentioned
    much earlier in the thread. [oh wait, the mysterious spanish friend is not
    Mhyst .. but just a general mysterious spanish guy ;) OR IS HE :P ]

    - ritz
ritz

Please do publish (24/11/04 19:36:30)
    This is what I call fun :)
vvf

The more the best (25/11/04 17:31:34)
    Critically speaking.

    Oh, and by the way, thanks very much for the hunting game, dear Fravia+.
o.f.

car ad (23/11/04 09:50:44)
    I have the same feelings, vvf, it could very likely be an adv of a car with a new diesel engine that can run really long without stopping so a driver needs to "tank" before a car gets out of fuel. There are however 2 things that worries me:
    1. Fravia would use ad for his riddle??? Next to impossible ;)
    2. Who the hell is driving 800 miles with this kind of shoes...?

    Will dig into it back in the evening...
iwan

Re: car ad (23/11/04 13:56:18)

    1. Fravia would use ad for his riddle??? Next to impossible ;)

    Not so impossible, considering that this image search is a kind of reality cracking.

    2. Who the hell is driving 800 miles with this kind of shoes...?

    Of course, this point is noted and valid, but in Real Life, whereas commercials 'embelish' life for their purposes all the time. So I don't think that would be a major drawback for the economical car theory. The young urbanite in the picture fits the profile of this possible commercial rather nicely. We'll see.

vvf

Re: Re: car ad (23/11/04 17:50:39)
    no car ad imho nope
    the green and the water and the rough rocks
    only green and water no roads
    this eliminates a car ad
    away from crap civilization back to nature
    is the message
    could be a mountain byke ad ?
    but not with those shoes
    the woman posture must mean something
    but what ?

Passerby

Re: Re: Re: car ad (24/11/04 07:07:46)
    It could be a SUV or 4x4 luxury car.... maybe the Porche.? the co driver (she) s drinking after a ordinary night out when he the good looking etc.etc.etc. grabes her away...

    BOY should I work for an agency...
tolis

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (23/11/04 08:41:28)
    Hi All
    Well I do agree with you all that it is most possible that it is an advertisement.
    BUT
    This folding line keeps bugging me. I came with the idea that the picture is not an advert but a privetly scaned folded centerfold (like a playboy centerfold). The picture ratios didnt match those of a mag page so I was off. But reading about the croping paterns of fravia I am back on the math board.
    I'll be back

tolis

Resolution (23/11/04 13:53:44)
    Remember that print and screen are different rez. If the image is scanned then you've got to make allowances for that when guestimating size. Also remember that companies tend to shrink down their ad images when they repost them on the web. If we assume that the copies of this on the web are not scans of the original, then maths probably isn't the way to go with this one.
madhaha

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (23/11/04 08:46:49)
    Hi All
    Well I do agree with you all that it is most possible that it is an advertisement.
    BUT
    This folding line keeps bugging me. I came with the idea that the picture is not an advert but a privetly scaned folded centerfold (like a playboy centerfold). The picture ratios didnt match those of a mag page so I was off. But reading about the croping paterns of fravia I am back on the math board.
    I'll be back

tolis

Re: Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (23/11/04 18:45:07)
    something more cropping (~ 10 cm) *above* (where you just would see some sky above those trees, nothing of relevance),

    Does nothing of relevance mean there is no advertisment text on these 10 cm?
iwan

Thread for side findings ;) (23/11/04 08:58:48)
    Isn't she refreshing?
    http://www.nmafa.si.edu/exhibits/larrabee/c4F.htm
o.f.

"Books have sexes"... (23/11/04 11:41:17)
    ...or to be more precise, books ads have genders. ;)

    As I recall from the previous publishings on SL about ads, feminine sexual hints target *females*, and v.v. And I can't help but feel that the target of this ad is the modern "freed" woman, strong, aware of her own desires, in control of her life, etc. notions.

    Besides - stricly speaking - an ad, this could be one of those "conceptual" photo series, which don't advertise a single brand, but a "concept", "fashion", "look". You know: "Our model is wearing high heels by Achiles(tm), Dress by Pucci(tm), water resistant watch by Reelex(tm), golden jewelry|jewelery|jewellery by Glod(tm), water resisting lipstick by Teflon(tm)"

    --------

    Now, the texual hints are quite puzzling. "source" might be refering to the river, but it is not an usual choice of words. "G. Bidwell" is not this bidwell:
    http://www.searchlores.org/cgi-bin/search?query=bidwell :)

    I spent some time yesterday, and the most distinctive answer is a polish author, George Bidwell, with books like "Victoria, Albert's Wife" and "Most Precious Jewel". What could this be - a brand including "Victoria" in its name? Jewellery related? Is "bidwell" a hint to the hint -- I would not doubt fravia to be that subtle, since his previous hints were too strong (a zahavian month, eh ;)

    Anybody with another suggestion on wtf is bidwell?
Mordred

Re: "Books have sexes"... (23/11/04 13:25:25)
    Yes, bidwell is a riddle in itself and we hate those with levels, don't we, Sir.

    Sorry to disagree here, but why would an hyper-conscious woman --and here, let me mention that I really do not like the chick part of fravia+'s title-- present herself lapping or sucking water "doggy" style?

    And yes, commercials are mostly gender specific. If you were the targeted audience would you be lapping or lurking (or worth;)?


o.f.

bidwell rapid? (23/11/04 14:35:18)
    http://www.hyak.com/rivers/chilko.html

    bit of water. perfect for drowning females with high heels in.

    and gobidwell.com , Bidwell Canyon Marina Lake Oroville (california)

    lotsa water called bidwell, apparently.

    i first thought it was a moviestill as well, but the defocussing
    argument and vvf's buzzword-filled story (it was an ad in itself, v ;) )
    i'm also convinced it's an add.
    plus that it's scanned, and bits removed which obviously contained
    the logos etc.

    first association i had with this pictures was "bridget jones", by
    the way, pink-dressed girl, doing something stupid. ;)

    ok this was probably not very useful.

    i bid you well,

    - ritz
ritz

Adflip + Adcritic (24/11/04 00:11:41)
    adflip and adcritic have both search engines.

    with adflip i had no luck with the public results, but there seems to be a lot more in the restricted part of its database.

    another tool : adeater.com, huge database of ads (movies). A pity i have a low bandwith..

    a query to fish other ressources : http://www.google.com/search?q=Adflip+Ad-Access+adcritic+adforum


dryad

Another collection of ressources on advertising (attn +Fravia) (24/11/04 01:28:10)
    do not forget to use what we already have collected :)

    http://www.searchlores.org/antiadve.htm#kinke

    link to Columbia College Chicago's "How to Research the Advertising Industry" is currently dead. It needs to be updated to point to :

    http://www.lib.colum.edu/research/subjects/advertising4.htm

    i guess there was some updates and the number indicates the version (or the year) of the directory.

    Anyway, it has all the ressources previously mentionned, and more.

    If our picture was taken from an ad, we have all we need to find it.




    Post Scriptum :

    twisted thoughts : suppose +F dropped, as he frequently does, some 'indirect' hints in the text of the page. Some already seek on the Bidwell path, but what can we find from the keyword 'Source' ? it has a meaning on the water field, but can be interpreted (twisted) elsewhere. Traceback to sources, starting from (a scan of) a print ad. You'll end with announcers and ad agencies, involved in campains for brand-flags. here i took some time to medidate on the military means of that word. Who's against who anyway ?

    So i searched for an agency called 'Source' (i didn't tried a brand search engine yet, will do it soon). I used Agency Compile services, and searched in their directory. And went directly to agencies' websites. No luck yet, but this directory seems to be americano centric.

dryad

Adbrands ! also great tool for RC  (24/11/04 01:37:04)
    http://www.adbrands.net/sectors/sector_softdrinks.htm

    i like that red ball ;)

    has detailed profiles for companies/brands
    comprehensive search engine. but needs registration for full access.
dryad

Re: Adbrands ! d'you recognize http://www.adbrands.netimages/lbball1.gif ? :-) (n/t) (24/11/04 14:31:04)

Observer

Re: correct keyword/s (24/11/04 16:37:30)
    yeppers keyword s is always the trickster

    now after studying several water bottle ads you can come up with several of the same advert text concepts:
    pure fresh clean clear refreshing natural; the source, from the source,

    don't know what to do if this is not an english model/ad - could try different languages for ages

    many epa newsletters and water and H20 news and mags called "The Source"
    lists of water bottled companies etc

    but it still comes down to using the right aquafiltered words (in the case of water/bottled/ at least)

    funny how image can relay different things as i thought about it- want to especialy go back and read what each person here thought and wrote to see:

    is there differences in perception from country to country?
    with all our differences do we visisualy see things pretty much the same?
    does one psyhcolog manual work for all?

    we use our descriptives like nouns verbs hobbits and rabbits
    are images like antynums synomums homynims? heheh you spell 'em :)
    you see something but it means something else entirely? It makes you feel some sensation that is exact of its text?
    whadaI think dat means?

    what do you think of when you think of:
    pure fresh clean wet

    I bet you thought of bottled water, right? :)

    getting the right keyword/s gottah come from getting a close eval

    and so it was how i finaly found a symonim
    heheh - don't mind me - its 3 cups of coffee hic!


jeff

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (23/11/04 19:03:37)
    An ad for water would be to easy and the woman just looks a little too stylish. I think is about cosmetics, a combination of beauty and nature. Maybe a body lotion or a perfume. And also think about the color of her dress: corporate identity...
liberté

Re: Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (23/11/04 19:12:21)
    beauty and nature- that is exactly what i couldn't form in my brain- yes that sounds GOOD! beauty and nature - the best nature has to offer - does not the ad seem to appeal to men though - rather than women??? not sure

    not sure about cosmetics - but its a definite big ticket ad
jeff

Aqua Awards (IBWA, EBWA etc..) (24/11/04 00:23:22)
    http://www.bottledwater.org/public/conv2004/aqua_award_catgor.html

    dunno if it could help
Aqua

Re: Re: Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (24/11/04 01:05:47)
    hiya jeff :)

    Wonder why nobody said the word yet.

    > does not the ad seem to appeal to men though - rather than women??? not sure

    NOT SURE? hehe... ;)
    I also think the picture seems to appeal mainly to men
    (who would've thought) but probably also to some women.


    PS And how's your shoulder? Any progress?

RH

Re: http://www.searchlores.org/source2.htm (24/11/04 04:54:13)
    One path I wonder if anyone has tried: there are these people in #irc and other forums who scan ads, and such, and they are superb at identifying the models and the ads (in that order, if I remember).

    f+: is this sort of outside help allowed? It would make the seeking simple(r)...
.

springwater (24/11/04 09:44:57)
    i think it's allowed, why not, it's about finding information right?
    it's just that nobody often does it and results have not always been very
    good.

    and it sometimes stalls the riddle searching to a "a posted it on a forum
    and didn't get a reply yet" waiting contest :)

    now about spring water, there is a spring water brand called "Sourcy".
    maybe that's a good direction, as with the hint in the name or something.
    oh i now see it's a dutch brand (google for "sourcy"), has some ads, but
    the image we're looking for rings a definite non-dutch bell. probably
    because the model is that perfect. dutch-origin ads have often more
    "normal people" models in it. ..nothing worse than being contantly confronted
    with these almost pornographic hypermodels, unreal people, and you get
    sad "why don't the women i meet look like this?" .. and the answer is that
    in fact they do, but that you don't see it cause you're blinded by the
    stupid ads with their make-up, photoshop-retouching and special lighting,
    focussing and whatnot. i hate that perfect world that does not exist, and
    has never really existed cause it was fake to begin with. especially if they
    make me want it, because i can never have it.

    (eh.. sorry for the rant)

    - ritz
ritz

Interesting articles : "Sexiness in Coke’s Bottled Water" (24/11/04 16:00:20)
    Decades after 7Up was sold as “wet and wild,” a brand of bottled water is being pitched in much the same suggestive way, bringing soft-drink marketing tactics to an increasingly competitive fray.

    The bottled water, Dasani, is the subject of a significantly revamped campaign from Berlin Cameron/Red Cell in New York that begins Monday. Drenched with sexual imagery, the television commercials, print advertisements and posters, with a budget estimated at $20 million, are uncharacteristic for the Dasani parent, the Coca-Cola Co. Coca-Cola generally favors a wholesome approach to peddle its beverage brands.

    The makeover for the ads for Dasani, No. 2 in the bottled-water category, behind Aquafina, comes as executives at the Aquafina parent, the Pepsi-Cola Co. division of PepsiCo, mull a major change in its campaigns. They have placed in review the Aquafina creative account, handled since early last year by Element 79 Partners in Chicago.

    The cheeky sexiness of the new Dasani campaign is PG-rated compared with the scarlet “R” that might be borne by current ads for other beverages like Coors Light and Miller Lite beers in which scantily clad women gambol or tussle. For instance, in one Dasani commercial, a man and woman frolic in an elevator as a security camera captures the action, but they turn out to be husband and wife. In another spot, a woman spends a night out on the town with an extremely attractive man, then heads home where she gets undressed and jumps into bed -- with her teddy bear.

    Still, the Dasani campaign is much more sensuous than its predecessor, which carried the theme “Treat yourself well. Everyday.

    The goal is to borrow the trappings of the emotionally evocative lifestyle advertising used typically in soft-drink campaigns, rather than the more rational tack traditionally taken to sell bottled water, which focuses on product benefits like purity and refreshment.

    The initial three Dasani commercials created by Berlin Cameron/Red Cell -- the division of the Red Cell unit of the WPP Group that is also responsible for the new “Real” campaign for Coca-Cola Classic -- are replete with quick editing cuts, fast-paced music and fast-moving plots. Then, too, there is all the sexiness, as embodied by multiple scenes of attractive young people dancing, running and embracing, interspersed with shots of water splashing into open mouths.

    “People may not immediately say, ‘That’s water advertising,’ because there are no spas, babbling brooks or yoga,” said Kellam Mattie, senior brand manager for Dasani at the Coca-Cola North American division in Atlanta. “But they’ll come to say, ‘This is what water advertising can be.”’

    Coca-Cola is borrowing another tactic of soft-drink marketing by segmenting its water products by price. It has already signed a deal with Groupe Danone to distribute Dannon bottled water, a lower-price brand, and Evian, a higher-price brand. Now, Coca-Cola is trying to position Dasani as a midprice product; it is not as expensive as imported waters but costs more than so-called value brands.

    “Coca-Cola’s three-tier water strategy will only work if Dasani’s brand equity is strong enough that people perceive that Dasani’s higher price is worth paying,” William Pecoriello, an analyst at Morgan Stanley in New York, said in a report last week. “If the company fails to drive that brand equity, the multitier water strategy is at risk.”

    The Coca-Cola products, in addition to battling PepsiCo, are jousting with brands sold by companies including CG Roxane, which markets Crystal Geyser, and the Nestlé Waters North America division of Nestlé, with a lengthy list of labels like Arrowhead, Deer Park, Ice Mountain, Ozarks and Zephyrhills.

    Sales of Dasani in supermarkets, drugstores and mass-merchandise chains excluding Wal-Mart rose 10.7 percent for the 52 weeks that ended May 18, according to Information Resources in Chicago, compared with the same period a year earlier. The growth exceeded the 8.3-percent increase for the bottled-water category, but lagged behind the 12.1-percent gain for Aquafina.

    In dollar terms, the category, which does not include sparkling waters like Perrier, had total sales of nearly $2 billion in the period.

    Consumers spent $262.8 million, or 13.4 percent, on Dasani, compared with $346.8 million, or 17.6 percent, spent on Aquafina.

    Coca-Cola executives acknowledge the risks they are taking with the pricing strategy and departure from Coca-Cola norms, but said they believe they are necessary to achieve the desired growth. “If we’re not going to be more vital in the advertising, we can’t deliver on the promise the brand is making,” said Esther Lee, senior vice president and chief creative officer for Coca-Cola and its North American operations. “We’re not trying to shock people, but we had to go a little bit further and not be staid.

    “So much water advertising is about the nothingness of water,” she added. “The future in this category is the somethingness of water.”

    The comment about water’s nothingness was a gibe at a recent campaign for Aquafina, created by Element 79, part of the Omnicom Group, that carried the theme “So pure, we promise nothing.” In the current campaign, also by Element 79, that has been replaced by the theme “Purity guaranteed.”

    The review for the Aquafina account, now getting under way, is intended to help Pepsi-Cola “come up with the best ideas to reinforce our position as the category-leading bottled water,” said Bart Casabona, a spokesman for the Pepsi-Cola North American division in Purchase, New York.

    Casabona confirmed a report in Adweek that the review would pit Element 79 against two other Omnicom agencies that also work for PepsiCo, the New York offices of BBDO Worldwide and DDB Worldwide. “We’ve had a good relationship with Element 79,” he said. “It’s just a matter of leveraging Omnicom’s capabilities.”

    Pepsi-Cola introduced a promotion for Aquafina last week centered on two branded blimps traveling cross-country and a sweepstakes. A commercial by Element 79 focused on the promotion will begin running Tuesday, to be followed in two weeks by a spot featuring the actresses Alexis Bledel and Lauren Graham of the WB series Gilmore Girls. That spot is being produced by WB, owned by AOL Time Warner and the Tribune Co.
    Credit: ABS-CBN
dryad

Re: or vetical vertigo (26/11/04 16:42:37)
    -"Woman and Man in Advertising: Narrative Illustration of an 'Equality which Cannot Be Found'."

    http://www.imageandnarrative.be/gender/jeanlouistilleuil.htm
jeff

a sociosemiotic analysis of two advertising documents (26/11/04 17:18:17)
    "a sociosemiotic analysis of two advertising documents", no less...


    but


    "Since the end of the XVIIIth Century, the biological discourse has replaced the unisex model that confined the woman to a role of imperfect stand-in for the man, with a bisex model that distinguishes the female and male bodies on the basis of immeasurable differences. The new "horizontal" layout leads to a redistribution of the male-female relationships. But does our "cultural", social look at the body confirm that "natural" readjustment?"

    sounds "smelly crap" to me


    on the other hand

    "(B)ehind the flashy appearance of modernity in the 'consumer society', it is the most archaic discourse, making the woman feel minor and submitting her to the man, that is still conveyed by the current dominating representations."

    could apply to source2 as well...
Hyui

Re: test (n/t) (25/11/04 16:43:21)

test

Re: explanation of sorts - riddle - image finding (25/11/04 17:07:26) Reply
    well alright as promised here is a short/small explanation...

    i had just posted answering Mordred and had made the statement - if it were to be found in another language it might take ages to find...

    as usual i was going to post an addemdum-post-thought that i had forgotten - that as far as "text" i thought "small and "passion" should be added to our text list-- "small" seemed out of place - like a purposeful 'piece' inserted. remember 'ocre'?

    i was sitting there making my shopping list when i kept thinkin it just didn't make sense that of all the 'natural' keywords i was/had been using that nothing had accidentaly brought the image Up...that bottle industry uses many many of the same keywords to describe its product - why weren't the 'natural' words working?
    did we have the wrong product idea?

    something in my brain clicked - saludo amigos had written his message in spanish - but when i translated it yesterday there was a word that did not get translated -> "agence" --
    i thought it to be a spelling mistake that altavista just didn't listen too and so it didn't recognize to trans it- well it didn't trans it to english cause it wasn't spanish?? Go ask

    my brain kept saying agency agency 0 so i went and asked alta and it transed agency into 'agence' for french - ahha - frenchy water!! Saludos says he looked and found it - has to be french water if im following his clues -(they were clues yes??)

    well to keep this short lets not go over all the words and returns i got looking into french -

    but just a couple for reference and my buddy ritz ->gotdamned altavista gave me returns such as:
    river == fleuve
    for 'source' it gave me == source
    so im thinking alright - part french part english - i got this bitch now!!

    no such luck.................. tried many other words too:
    Alta trans natural into == normal...wtf?
    nature into == nature...
    im in trouble...biiiiiiiig trouble...so maybe source isn't 'source' in french-
    either find another translator or rethink position...meanwhile ive got company coming and a bird to go buy and cook

    so im vacuming the living room when i think - sumbitch - instead of french water lets go back to a broader picture- something i don't want to do because it spoils the filter and enlarges the return - euro water
    dam im getting way to big a field again - euro covers alot of ground water...

    so the vacum goes off midway and i come in and type in:
    belgium "bottled water" natural nature cool

    well you might know why i choose belgium - if not just say it was a guess that you don't need to know :)

    now other than the first link the first thing i see is:
    Results 1 - 10 of about 803 for belgium "bottled water" natural nature cool.
    No gotadanged way! 8 0 3 ?

    nah this can't have been planned...no way! fravia tell me it isn't so :)
    hahaha...to many keywords to be planned - but i feel an omen even though i know it can't be so

    so i see belgium distributes its own brand of water - SPA

    go see SPA
    belgium "bottled water" SPA

    Spa Bottled Water, Source: Spring Water, Type: Still, Bottled in: Spa, Ardennes Mountains,Belgium.
    ... Spa Natural Spring Water
    Your Source for Unique High Quality Bottled Water Products From Around the World. Spa Natural Spring Water is imported from the town of Spa, Belgium..etc etc etc...


    there's all the damned keywords ive been looking for-

    but alas looking for images of spa water doesn't give me that image - you can look if you want cause of course i may have just missed it in haste - so i have to regroup again and go back to vacuming

    along about 3/4 of the family room done, having at last finished the living room, i think - 'agence' again... agency- belguim advertising

    agencies! The vacum needs to cool off anyway-

    belgium
    "advertising" "agence" marketing


    scrolling the page about the only name i see is:
    ... Belgium Duval Guillaume Corporate Louiza-Marialei 2 B-2018 Antwerp Belgium.

    Duval Guillaume...remember that name

    back to finish vacuming...I'm in the hallway when my brain says SPA source
    Spa source
    Spa source
    SPA...shut down vac...source agence

    sumgun

    keywords- so importante! :) Thanks amigos!

    now in retrospect - the advertising marketing therory could have paid off also if only i had done this:
    Duval Guillaume

    Pendant que sa grande s?ur Barissart s?habille totalement de rouge dans les rayons, la petite Marie-Henriette fait l?espiègle sur les bords d?une rivière avec une envie irrésistible de s?y désaltérer. Une façon bien sympathique de rappeler au public cette eau issue de la plus vieille source de Spa.

    While its large s?ur Barissart gets dressed completely with red in the rays, the small Marie-Henriette makes the mischievous one on the edges of a river with an irresistible desire be refreshed there. A way sympathetic nerve of recalling well to the public this water resulting from the oldest source of Spa.

    small- refreshed - river - water - source - (i thought i saw the word cool somewhere yesterday too- but can't recall where or which page :(

    keywords are important again...alta-river == fleuve ... ad-river == rivière

    gotdamned french :)

    I want to thank everyone for their great and inciteful posts because without your convictions and ideas i may have strayed as i often do. Saludos amigo your #uno :)

    have to go meet daughter for Thanksgiving Breakfast- chow!!



jeff

Already 804 results as per http://www.searchlores.org/schroedi.htm :) (25/11/04 18:07:14) Reply
    Which proves google is indexing FAST nowadays....
../

Could just be the moon ;) (26/11/04 22:29:31) Reply
    Google fluctuates all the time anyway remember? You can't rely on that counter to tell you how many pages are really indexed and when.
madhaha

Impressive work, Jeff :) (27/11/04 00:36:00) Reply
    Congratulations, Jeff! I was following this thread and was certain you would be the one to solve the case. And I believe I know why you guessed *Belgium*. I would like to discuss that topic with you, but I no longer know how to contact you personally. Don't know whether the old email is active. I think you know who I am - or can guess, so please contact me if you feel like it and have time. May have something interesting to share with you. The old method of contacting me won't work. If you have trouble finding my contact info, just say. Best.
oufkir

Re: Re: tuesday morning quaterbacking (30/11/04 19:15:41) Reply
    ...i try to keep learning things AFTER puzzles are over cause it gives more clues for later 'thinking'

    while looking into one path that i felt had an anomaly i think i saw another which might save time on later times; other times; btw where are those other frav-bidwell advert-lecture images? still waiting as others who posted so too

    whoever oufkir is you'll need to leave me an email and more hint as to who youeverbe; wha yah tink eym sidekick?


    image engines and finding image of the spring girl
    keyword/s used: source rivière

    1.google: no

    2.altavista: yes

        391 returns...http://thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com/image/299148656


    2a. alltheweb: yes

        340 returns....http://thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com/image/299148656


    3.picsearch:no

    4.excite: yes ...

    small image says: 299148656--http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com/image/299148656
        442 returns...

    i just went back and looked at alltheweb and alta and they too use that 2991

    number...

    5.Latingia: yes...

    http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com/image/299148656
        378 returns

    same 2991 number as excite... (using same database?)

    6.lycos: yes ...
        379 returns


    lycos also uses the same identifier: 299148656
    http://thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com/image/299148656

    7.yahoo: yes ...
        340 returns

    once again its using the #299148656
    http://thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com/image/299148656

    all using same database? which one is the parent? determined by highest returns?? mining each other?

    altavista-alltheweb-lycos-and yahoo seem to be getting the image from:
    thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com/image/299148656
    can i assume then that yahoo is the parent?

    excite and latingia seem to get theirs from -http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com

    the commonality is the image number though- 299148656 - different url yet same number points to the butler imo

    when i goto http://thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com in google and click on it's link;
    * If the URL is valid, try visiting that web page by clicking on the following link:

    thm-a.search.vip.scd.yahoo.com/image
    it auto takes me to altavista... - not yahoo?...wierder and weirder

    ok so i looked at:http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com
    * If the URL is valid, try visiting that web page by clicking on the following link: re2.mm-a.yimg.com

    and again it auto-takes me to altavista...

    who's the mama?
    AltaVista - Business Services
    ... Overture Site Match(tm) Search results on AltaVista are powered by Yahoo! Search
    Technology. ... Basic Submit Search results on AltaVista are powered by Yahoo! ...

    oakeedokee then- i guess the point then of this is that PERHAPS its not necessary to search all

    these different image engines (though some apparently have a few more returns than others)
    because probably getting the same returns from each - (though agin haven't done absolute test to

    verify - hard to do also since they each have various # returns - and never KNOW if one of the extra ones could be yourn) -
    need to find some keywords that only return a few pics and see how many are the exact same returns- i did tests in an 'oil on canvass' essay i started last year but never finished- parts in it showed alta's and allthewebs returns were basic-same...
    so very little use searching both for same keywords - waste of carpal tunnel

    anyhow- way- who owns what?
    http://www.bearcanyonseo.com/tips_search_engine_relationship.html

    yahoo seems to own lots of places - reading this chart on who is feeding whom, makes me want to re-characterize more engines as 'metas' - something i wouldn't have called alltheweb or alta -:)

    anyway this began as some notes to point out that some engines picked up some french words such as rivière when google (images) did not, so i thought it might be important to stress yet again while using keywords to try other engines with those words that might not be working in one engine before you toss them out as nonrefundable - no worth
    now i would scratch my head though and need to try to figure out which one of the others i might use since they do all seem to give the same return grabbed from the same places...perhaps, excite, since it grabbed 100 more than yahoo-? would have to see if there is any consistancy in that thought

    ??







jeff

i know one thing for sure (30/11/04 19:46:23) Reply
    for my next serious search i'm definitely gonna use yahoo.

    an old friend, been keeping my email safe for over 7 years now :)

    - ritz
ritz

How so?? (30/11/04 21:42:19) Reply
    anyway this began as some notes to point out that some engines picked up some french words such as rivière when google (images) did not,

    On source rivière Google Images gives me 420 (safesearch off) or 407 (safesearch on) results.





vvf

Re: How so?? (30/11/04 22:44:23) Reply
    anyway this began as some notes to point out that some engines picked up some french words such as rivière when google (images) did not,

    On source rivière Google Images gives me 420 (safesearch off) or 407 (safesearch on) results.



    hiya V- if i follow what your post meant then i guess i confused the issue by saying: google: no
    ??

    what i meant was google does NOT bring UP our image in returns (it does however bring up images - so yes goog is seeing french in some images- but not ours)

    again- sorry - i was just trying to point out that sometimes our words aren't wasted:)

    we thought source was a clue
    we thought water
    we thought river

    river water source - easy to pull from picture one would think but for some reason google didn't get much more than 'agence', or give back much more than englisch

    the other ngines seemed far better (in this instance- not sure until more language tests) in having indexed fur-in-ner words :)

    rivière eau source

    that seems a resonable string of words after image examination - as most of us used those words in description/s

    so thinking in the right language was critical- using an engine that best/better/ indexed--> even more so

    so do those others better index other languages - or was this a minor google-fluk - only time and moe beer will tell me bucko :)
    hic!
jeff


Petit image

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